PLC for home automation?

[jvdcande]

ieseng,

I have always heard there is no such thing as a silly or stupid question, only silly or stupid answers.

If Anton wants to automate his house, why don't you let him do so. It's not because you don't see a reason, that he must see it the same way.

I could think of several things to automate. Just to give you one small example: I have a (very) bad back and I might need to use a wheelchair in some years time. I think it would be a good idea to automate my window blinds, especially because I have rather big windows. Just image to open and close them sitting on a chair.

Just try to imagine a schematic to switch off all the lights in your house with one button, so if you're leaving you don't have to go through all the rooms to check. With home automation it's very easy to do.

Kind regards,

 

[scottmurphy]

Home automation is a huge market, and like automation to a certain extent, you are limited by your imagination, and ultimately, price. Because any type of control system requires a lot of design, and the implementation time can be quite considerable also.

I think it would be a good idea to automate my window blinds, especially because I have rather big windows. Just image to open and close them sitting on a chair.

I worked on a couple of houses when Cbus was in its infancy here, and did a house that had auto windows for temperature control. Cannot remember exactly if it was for temp control, but def setup to close if temp dropped, which may have indicated rain.

Imagine pushing one button, lights dim, movie starts, sound increases, curtains close, chair reclines, options are endless, so is the budget......

 

[kboggs]

interpose higher amprage relays to handle the load. and buy the AD 205 the inputs and outputs are less than 100 per 16 inputs and outputs and buy the smallest cpu 230 or 240 the 240 will have a calender in it that the 230 doe not have

 

[antor]

What are you going to Automate in your house?

I have only last year finished my house and it never occured to me to automate it.

Hi, I want to automate every power outlet, lights, blinds, heaters, etc. In essence, every wall switch will be an input to the PLC and every power outlet will be an output (routed thru a relay). Sure the cabling is going to be crazy, but protocols that don't use independing cabling for routing commands such as X10 are not reliable enough to meet my needs.

In addition, I plan to using a PC with speech recognitions and mics and speakers in the main rooms so I can control everything by voice too. This is phase 2) but at least the above system would be ready for this (just the PC inputs -or RS232/485 command if possible- to the PLC will override the regular commands). I can do things like "check the weather for tomorrow" and if it is going to be cold, I connect the heat accumulators during the night.

So far I am counting about 80 inputs and 80 outputs. I think I'll just get 128 I/Os to have some buffer.

 

[elevmike]

Everything?

antor, consider the possability of component failure. If you lose your CPU to a bolt of lightning your going to be totally in the dark.

 

[504bloke]

Everything?

antor, consider the possability of component failure. If you lose your CPU to a bolt of lightning your going to be totally in the dark.

Go for dual redundancy then on a switchover circuit

 

[antor]

Hi,

I have put together the following for my home automation project.

Equipment

1 x D2-09B-1 9 SLOT BASE WITH INTERNAL 110/220 VAC P/S
1 x H2-WPLC3-EN 100 MHZ WINPLC FOR ENTIVITY 8MB RAM 8MB ROM
3 x D2-32ND3 32PT 24V DC INPUT MODULE
3 x D2-32TD2 32PT 24V DC SOURCING OUTPUT
1 x D2-12TR 12PT RELAY OUTPUT 5-30VDC OR 5-250VAC
1 x F2-08SIM 8 PT INPUT SIMULATOR
6 x ZL-4CBL4 DL405 32 ZIPLINK CABLE 1.6FT (0.5M)
6 x ZL-CM40 40 POLE CONNECTOR MODULE
32 x 781-1C-24D RELAY24VDC 1PDT 15A LED TESTPB
32 x 784-4C-SKT-1 RELAY SOCKET 784 SERIES SQUARE
11 x RS6N-DE CARD RELAY 6 RELAYS 24VDC 5A SPST

I plan to have 64 inputs (wall switches), presence detectors, etc for inputs and 32 high-current relays, as well as 12 (D2-12TR) relays for lights and 64 all-purpose relays.

Comments?

BR - Andres

 

[elevmike]

Wrong relay sockets.

This is the socket for that relay:

http://web3.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Relay_Sockets_-a-_Accessories/781-1C-SKT

 

[antor]

Wrong relay sockets.

This is the socket for that relay:

http://web3.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Relay_Sockets_-a-_Accessories/781-1C-SKT

Corrected... Thanks!

 

[ieseng]

What are you going to Automate in your house?

ieseng,

I have always heard there is no such thing as a silly or stupid question, only silly or stupid answers.

If Anton wants to automate his house, why don't you let him do so. It's not because you don't see a reason, that he must see it the same way.

Simple question, stupid answer.
All I was asking was what was he automating in his house, not passing judgement on whether or not he SHOULD automate. You should read the posts properly before you reply with such silly answers.

Best of luck with your home automating guys, seems there are endless possibilities there and the only constraint is cost and imagination.

Thanks.

 

[antor]

I am leaning towards the DL 205 WinPLC. This has an ethernet port and runs Windows CE 2.12, and can be programmed in C++. The possibilities are end-less, just one example:

I live in a fairly mild weather area, but about 3 months in the winter it gets cold (10 degrees C) with a lot of humidity. I have a very large dining room (55 m2) and I evaluated to use heat accumulators. Heat accumulators get charged during the night and dissipate heat during the day (you get cheaper power during off-peak hours). The problem is that in my area you may get a very sunny day with (15 degrees) so if the heat is dissipated the room will be way too hot.

Now with the WinPLC I can programmatically query a weather forecast on the internet and decide if I am turning the heat accumulators on for that night and if so for how long.

Regards!

 

[antor]

Long time no update!

Well... the good news is that I am almost finally done. I've gone with the equipment above and programmed a very flexible rules engine in C++ that runs in the DL205. In essence, it understands wall switches, pushdowns, presence detectors, etc. as inputs and can operate a variety of outputs, at this point all connected via relays and then to light bulbs.

I'll will post a pic of the work-in-progress area in which all fuses, relays, PLC, etc. are installed to give you an idea of the size of the installation.

I have one question though: although I've stress-tested the DL205 program I've written, I still want to be able to operate the house even if the PLC fails, crashes or is simply dead.

I've decided to install pushdown buttons instead of switches in the walls, each time you press the pushdown button, the PLC detects the pulse and acts accordingly (e.g. sending 24 VDC to the appropriate relay). The problem with this approach is that I cannot connect the pushdown buttons to the relays directly should the PLC be dead, as the relays are not latching relays.

So the question is:

1. Do you know of any good AND SMALL latching relay (operated by a pulse, not continous 24 VDC volt.)? I went with the RS6N-DE 6-in-a-card relays as the densitity of relays per space is pretty good.

2. Do you know of a simple, high density (64 ins and 64 outs; or 32 ins and 32 outs) DIN mounted device that can translate 24 VDC pulses into 24 VDC states? That would be a simple way of simulating a latching relay putting this device before the relay coils.

What I am trying to achieve is a way of being able to use pushdown buttons (that output a 24 VDC pulse when pressed) to control the lights-switching relays.

Thank you in advance!

 

[elevmike]

antor,

The PLC is likely the most robust component in the entire system. Any failures will likely be due to the wireing, power supply, the relays, or programming code.

A suggestion for the latching relay would be IDEC, RY2LS-2 DC24V. This is a 2pdt KH style relay, but it uses a 4 pole KH style socket.

 

[antor]

Thanks for the prompt response. I understand about the HW reliability... when I say PLC I mean "DL205 + Power + Software". I am trying to build a safety net in case the PLC is not available... for whatever reason.

Is this the one you are referring to http://ecatalog.idec.com/pdfs/relays/RY2KS(U907).pdf ?

That one has two coils (set/reset) which if I understand correctly would not work for me, as I need one single coil to toggle the state of the relay; that I would just connect to a single pushdown button.

 

[elevmike]

Antor,

That's the relay I was refering to. I am unaware of a "single coil" latching relay, however there are "blow back" relays where the armature has a perm magnet that holds the armature aganst the coil and the relay is pushed back (reset)by reversing the coil polarity. I know these exist but am not sure where to get them.

What we do in many cases is wire the device in series with the normally closed contacts on the relay, and turn off the device by energizing the relay coil. This way if there were a power failure in the control panel, the lights would stay on. This would require that you use an on/off switch to "parallel" control the relay to turn the lights off in case of a PLC or control panel power failure.